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Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 27 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1405<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Volcanic evidence (was Re: Cold War)<BR>
Re: Crypto<BR>
Lava mining<BR>
Re: Cold War<BR>
Re: Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
Re: Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
Re: Crypto<BR>
Re: Cold War<BR>
Re: Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
Re: Cold War<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1400<BR>
Comets vs Asteroids<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1400<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:51:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 26-11-99, Kyle Schuant said :<BR>
><BR>
> <<Snippage ocurred fore and aft>><BR>
><BR>
>>You can't compare the explosion of lots of nukes with<BR>
>>the explosion of a volcano. A volcano does not have a<BR>
>>3million centigrade fireball, nor deadly radiation.<BR>
>>Its blast is often supersonic, but it doesn't usually<BR>
>>explode in the middle of a city (disaster movies<BR>
>>notwithstanding). Also, one big bang doesn't make as<BR>
>>much dust (for nuclear winters) as lots of "little"<BR>
>>bangs. Lots of little ones cause more damage; this is<BR>
>>the principle of the frag grenade.<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm, nice try, but wrong.  True, yer average volcanic eruption doesn't get<BR>
> up to the temperatures found in nuclear detonation (which, BTW, only get to<BR>
> a couple of thousand degrees Kelvin).  It does, however, emit large doses<BR>
> of radiation, depending on eruption type.  Even better, it vents all sorts<BR>
> of lovely gasses which if manufactured by man would be outlawed.  Rarely do<BR>
> volcanoes in the middle of a city go off because humans are not so totally<BR>
> moronic so as to build on the flanks of too many active hilltops.  When<BR>
> they have, they've discovered their mistake and not lived to tell of it.<BR>
> Eruptions ala 'Volcano' are historically rare.  However, can you say<BR>
> Pompeii ?  It doesn't have to spew forth lava to be deadly.<BR>
><BR>
> As for spitting up ash, wrong again.  We find a fair few ash layers in<BR>
> sedimentary rocks that must have been many, many metres thick when they<BR>
> were laid.  Often, we find the same evidence from the same eruption<BR>
> hundreds of kilometers from the eruption point itself.  One eruption in<BR>
> recent history altered the climate across the globe.  Krakatua.  One single<BR>
> eruption.  Heard as far away as Sydney in Australia where the Governor<BR>
> thought Russian warships were bombarding his coastal defences.  Show me a<BR>
> nuke that can do that !<BR>
<BR>
I live within sight of Mount St. Helens. We've *seen* those meter thick<BR>
ash layers. Even hundred of miles away. But the trick is that the ash<BR>
has to get into the *stratosphere* to affect climate. That 1815<BR>
explosion caused *more* of that effect, even though it was smaller than<BR>
St. Helens (and Kratatoa, and that Taopura(sp?) blast someone was<BR>
talking about). That's because it  went more *up* than out. And it may<BR>
have produced finer ash, which stays up longer.<BR>
<BR>
Nukes, because of the fireball, are *much* better at getting<BR>
particulates, especially *fine* particulates, into the upper<BR>
atmosphere. Sure, each one puts up less *indivually*. But they raise it<BR>
higher, and because there are a *lot* of them, widely spread, they<BR>
distribute it more evenly. <BR>
<BR>
Then there's the smoke from the firestorms. Anyplace where you get a<BR>
firestorm, the severe updraft in the center that drives the firestorm<BR>
will also carry smoke particles (quite close to "ideal" size for<BR>
staying up a *long* time) into the stratosphere. <BR>
<BR>
One of the big arguments regarding attempts to calculate the effecs of<BR>
a large, widespread attack is just how big the firestorms would be, how<BR>
many there'd be, and how long they'd last before spreading to far to<BR>
sustain the winds that drive them. <BR>
<BR>
The USSR would have had a lot of them, because they liked to hide silos<BR>
in *thick* forests. Cities with lots of older buildings are another<BR>
prime candidate. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, I forget who it was who kept harping on "there weren't enough<BR>
missiles to carry all those warheads". Well, I spent a lot of years<BR>
living next to a SAC airbase. Those B52 crews would have done their<BR>
damnedest to get their "warheads" (bombs, and later stand-off<BR>
shortrange missiles) thru. And I think a lot would have succeeded.<BR>
Ditto for their Soviet counterparts. <BR>
<BR>
And I have to wonder about the bombers that'd get shot down. We know<BR>
that our bombs can survive explosions and crashes IF THEY AREN'T ARMED<BR>
at the time. What happens if they *are* armed. For that matter, is<BR>
there a way the crew could detonate them in the time between "We're<BR>
going down!" and impact?<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav : Imagine a system where the populace of the mainworld is sitting on<BR>
> the flanks of a volcano they think is extinct.  Say, Olympus Mons on Mars.<BR>
> Big bugger.  What are they gonna do when it appears that it isn't extinct ?<BR>
>  How do up and move millions of people, even in a high TL Third Imperium ?<BR>
> Imagine the PC's fighting people off because they're the last ship out<BR>
> after all the nobles' yachts and Megacorps freighters have left.  Ooh,<BR>
> that'd be evil.<BR>
<BR>
Check out a bunch of John Brunner's early SF. He had "involuntary"<BR>
colonies scattered all over the place. They were all ZFPs (Zarathustra<BR>
Refugee Planets". The only title I can remember off the top of my head<BR>
is "The Pirates of Zan".<BR>
<BR>
Basic concept was that centuries back, it'd been discovered that<BR>
Zarathustra's sun was going to nova. Soon. A massive evacuation attempt<BR>
took place, and towards the end, as the day side started to cook, the<BR>
last few hundred ships were launching from night side and trying to<BR>
stay in the planet's shadow as long as possible while trying to get up<BR>
to speed for hyperdrive (In traveller terms, make it to the 100<BR>
diameter limit).<BR>
<BR>
This meant that due to the planet's position, they were headed out into<BR>
unexplored space (in Traveller, make it that the radiation from the<BR>
nova not only *caused* the misjumps, but biased them in that direction)<BR>
<BR>
They were badly overloaded. So badly that there were almost immediate<BR>
life support problems. So when they came out of hyper (exited jump)<BR>
they *had* to head for any planets that were nearby, just to replenish<BR>
the air supply. <BR>
<BR>
Some ships forcibly unloaded the passengers, promising to bring help<BR>
and were then lost when their engines or crew weren't up to making the<BR>
return trip to civilized space. <BR>
<BR>
Other ships were in too bad a condition (or had lost too many of the<BR>
operations personnel due to life support and fighting with the<BR>
passengers. When they landed (or often "crashed" in a manner that let<BR>
enough people survive) they were *stuck*. <BR>
<BR>
Thus as folks expanded into this area they were always finding colonies<BR>
in the damnedest places. Planets that were "livable" but only just. And<BR>
sometimes, the folks that discovered them would keep it a secret. In<BR>
one book, someone had found a ZFP that was still a fair ways beyond the<BR>
"border" (misjump!) and when he got back, the megacorp he worked for<BR>
kept it a secret. they infiltrated the local theocracy, and<BR>
"redirected" the way sacrifices were done. In short, they used the<BR>
planet as a "spare parts" depot. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, you'd get some of the same effects (overloaded sgips,<BR>
passengers and crew fighting over life support, critical systems<BR>
getting damaged). Alas, you wouldn't be likely to get the massive<BR>
number of mis-jumped ships. :-(<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:44:04 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Volcanic evidence (was Re: Cold War)<BR>
<BR>
>The power of St Helens was, what, about 4MT ?  And that affected<BR>
>such a small area of the surface of the Earth as to laughable.  In<BR>
>1000 years time, there won't even *be* any evidence for the eruption.<BR>
<BR>
 In a thousand years, most of the surface evidence will have eroded/rotted <BR>
away unless another eruption comes along and puts a new surface on the area <BR>
(which would cover over and preserve the fallen trees, for example). The new <BR>
shape of the mountain, however, will remain until another eruption changes it <BR>
again. That is sufficient evidence of the eruption, and will last however <BR>
many decades/centuries/millenia it is allowed to by the magma mass beneath <BR>
St. Helens...<BR>
<BR>
GC (occasional Geologist)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 11:05:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Crypto<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Was Written:<BR>
><BR>
>>> a) the code book is bigger than the message (since you have<BR>
>>>    a substitution table for each letter.)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> b) only people with a complete code book can use the code.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> c) how do you transmit and secure the code book?<BR>
><BR>
> Snip<BR>
><BR>
>>The problem is that "one-time pads" is that they are *not* suitable for<BR>
>>this sort of application. They work great for point to point<BR>
>>communications, because you only have to make sure that the two points<BR>
>>involved get their "pads" securely.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Response:<BR>
><BR>
> I'm not really all that familiar with cryptography but would the following<BR>
> work:<BR>
><BR>
> Each "branch office" would receive at scheduled periods a unique code which<BR>
> consists of two tables of simple equations whose results are non-repeating<BR>
> decimals i.e., like Pi?.<BR>
<BR>
There are no "simple" equations for irrationals like that. Or, rather,<BR>
there are "simple" equations, and there are equations that will easily<BR>
let you produce the XXth digit of the number.<BR>
<BR>
The simple equations can take *hours* to give you "merely" the 10th<BR>
digit of the number. <BR>
<BR>
But that really doesn't matter.<BR>
<BR>
> Each table would be sent by separate secure messenger.<BR>
<BR>
The problem that you are missing is that every branch you add to the<BR>
network adds another set of code keys OF WHATEVER FORM to be<BR>
distributed. And since they all have to be the *same* that means that<BR>
intercepting *one* gives away everything. The simple fact that there<BR>
are more *copies* makes getting hold of one (either by sneaking a peek<BR>
at one "in transit", or by bribing a clerk at a branch).<BR>
<BR>
Dividing the keys into parts, only helps a little with the interception<BR>
problem. It doesn't help *at all* with the "insider leak" problem. <BR>
<BR>
> Even if individual messages or even the code tables for a single branch for<BR>
> a specific time period are compromised,  the larger system is still secure.<BR>
<BR>
You missed the fact that *all* the branches have to have the *same*<BR>
keys, because they have to be able to verify or issue the stuff that<BR>
the ship has or needs. Remember, there's *no* way to determine *in<BR>
advance* which branch a ship will be at several months from now. So<BR>
they *all* have to be able to deal with it. <BR>
<BR>
> The home office would originate and have all the keys.  It thus would be the<BR>
> major security risk.<BR>
<BR>
Except that as I pointed out above, to be of any use for dealing with a<BR>
ship whose future location can't be predicted, *all* the branches have<BR>
to have the keys. <BR>
<BR>
> Just an idea for a relatively low tech rather unsophisticated message system<BR>
> which doubtlessly has sufficient flaws for ingenious PCs to exploit.<BR>
<BR>
It's too insecure for anybody to try it unless they don't bother<BR>
talking to anybody familiar with security and cryptography first. And<BR>
in that case, they'll *quickly* get taken for all they've got.<BR>
<BR>
In essence, the problem biols down to needing some "token" that the PCs<BR>
can carry that can be verified (to prove that contract terms are<BR>
correct and thus that *neither* party has cheated) and that can be<BR>
modified/updated (to note when, where, and how big the payments were).<BR>
<BR>
This requires a "key". And whatever it is, *any* branch that the PCs<BR>
wind up at has to have it, or they can't verify the contract terms, nor<BR>
record the new payment on the "token". <BR>
<BR>
And frankly, the customers are going to be a lot happier if *two* keys<BR>
are required. One for them, and one for the bank. That way there has to<BR>
be *mutual* agreement before any new info goes into the "token". <BR>
<BR>
*Reading* the token shouldn't require a key, or else should require a<BR>
publicly known key that isn't easily usable to determine the pair of<BR>
write keys.<BR>
<BR>
This sort of thing is *ideal* for the various "public key" ciphers. The<BR>
problem is that as computers get better you have to make the keys<BR>
longer. Luckily, adding one *bit* to a key generally makes it *at<BR>
least* twice as hard to crack. So if you add 8 bits, that's 256 times<BR>
the effort. Etc.<BR>
<BR>
There is one *bad* problem that could crop up. Adding bits makes things<BR>
so much harder because the keys are based on certain mathematical<BR>
operations being *much* harder to reverse than to do.<BR>
<BR>
semi-silly example: it's easy to determine that 5+4 = 9, but the only<BR>
way to determine that the 9 was produced by adding 5 and 4 and not 1<BR>
and 8, would be to try both as "keys". (say it was a 2 digit combo, and<BR>
you knew that it had to add up to 9) You'd have to try 0 & 9, 1 & 8, 2<BR>
& 7, 3 & 6, and 4 & 5.<BR>
<BR>
Now imagine it with 10 digit numbers. Bad huh? Even so, it wouldn't<BR>
take a computer long to search, simply because given a total of 65, and<BR>
a key of 23, it's obvious that the other value has to be 32.<BR>
<BR>
But what most of the public key systems use involves multiplying pairs<BR>
of prime numbers instead of merely adding "normal" numbers. So while it<BR>
is possible to determine the *product* of my public and private<BR>
keys, to determine my private key you have to be able to *factor* that<BR>
product. <BR>
<BR>
So for a *trivial* example, try figuring out which two primes were<BR>
multiplied together to produce 1147. Then consider trying to do it with<BR>
a number in the billions.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that there's no *guarantee* that there isn't some *easy*<BR>
way to determine the factors of a number. Nobody has found one, but<BR>
mathematicians haven't proved that it's impossible either.<BR>
<BR>
An early public key system depended on a math problem (the knapsack<BR>
algotithm) that someone found a fast solution to. And that rendered<BR>
that *method* of encryption invalid. Instead of adding 8 bits making<BR>
the things hundred of times harder it only made (say) 8 times harder.<BR>
Which meant it was just as hard to generate a longer key as it was to<BR>
crack one. Which was no good.<BR>
<BR>
However, even if factoring becomes easy, there are other principles<BR>
that public key ciphers can be based on. So as long as there are<BR>
ciphers based on different *types* of "hard problems" we are ok. <BR>
<BR>
In reality, quantum computing could make *all* the hard problems easy.<BR>
Luckily, it makes enough *other* things easy that we don't have to<BR>
worry about it in Traveller. Because it'd rip the Traveller universe to<BR>
shreds.<BR>
<BR>
Thus I'm confident that a Traveller type universe would have workable<BR>
public key encryption. Though they may have to use fairly long keys,<BR>
and the Imperium's history should include at least one time when they<BR>
had to scrap a widely used system and switch to another. <BR>
<BR>
This would either have led to major hassles during the changeover, or<BR>
if people had been smart, it'd be a damned nuisance. You get the<BR>
"damned nuisance" level by *not* using the same algorithm for<BR>
everything.<BR>
<BR>
Say you have three different cipher types. One, like PGP depends on<BR>
Factoring being hard. Another depends on X and another on Y. So if you<BR>
are smart, you use all three. So if one becomes worthless, you've got<BR>
the other two to use. <BR>
<BR>
In the case of ship's mortages and payment records, when the bank finds<BR>
out that cipher A is no good, they'll switch anybody who was using it<BR>
to Cipher B. And paranoid types will have insisted in doing things in<BR>
triplicate anyway, one in each cipher.<BR>
<BR>
Sound a bit umbersome? Maybe. But if they had a cipher become worthless<BR>
and *werent* doing things that way, they'd lose *everything*, Heck,<BR>
that could be a the reason for a major depession or two. But once you<BR>
learn that lesson you aren't going to forget!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:02:12 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Lava mining<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) typed:<BR>
<BR>
>So picture someone getting the idea of building mining "platforms" that<BR>
>can float on the lava, and use CG to cross the solid stuff. Equipped to<BR>
>sample the fresh lava and *pump* (scoop?) it aboard for processing when<BR>
>you find flows rich in valuable minerals. <BR>
><BR>
>Some may even "drill" into the flows to find the internal "pools" or<BR>
>the magma chambers where the *really* good stuff forms. <BR>
<BR>
 You aren't going to get the really precious minerals this way, since they <BR>
don't form until cooling. With the right hardware this _might_ be a decent <BR>
way to extract the common elements, pulling iron, aluminum, silicon, <BR>
magnesium and similar out of the liquid state instead of needing a furnace. <BR>
You just aren't going to find gold, silver or copper in this state unless <BR>
you've developed a way to process the entire flow as it goes by down to a <BR>
part-per-trillion molecular level. Those elements tend to stay deep (being <BR>
heavier) and come up through the cracks under high pressure MUCH later.  And <BR>
a carbon-rich magma chamber is still a millenium or so from being a diamond <BR>
mine...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 12:08:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cold War<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Cool.  The original point was total destruction of "...all life on earth<BR>
> ...".  Societies ?  Sure.  All life ?  Not a hope in Hades.  Nature has<BR>
> tried several times and failed.  Nothing we've done up until now can<BR>
> duplicate the power of nature.  Nothing, zip, zilch, diddly-squat.  The<BR>
> power of St Helens was, what, about 4MT ?  And that affected such a small<BR>
> area of the surface of the Earth as to laughable.  In 1000 years time,<BR>
> there won't even *be* any evidence for the eruption.<BR>
<BR>
Wrong, the ash deposits will last for geological time periods. <BR>
<BR>
> My point is, we have seen displays in the past from good-old Mother Nature<BR>
> that make all our purported power look like a joke.  Several species<BR>
> die-backs have occured throughout time.  The most notable being at the K-T<BR>
> boundary.  Assuming the much-beloved "comet theory", you're talking energy<BR>
> far in excess of what we can develop or deploy.  Ergo, I think the argument<BR>
> that we can "destroy all life on Earth" is flawed.<BR>
<BR>
Since we've found the crater, the big question is was it a commet or an<BR>
asteroid.<BR>
<BR>
But you forget that "Nature" has used brute force, and concentrated at<BR>
one point, at that. <BR>
<BR>
We can, regrettably, do better. We can exert our force in just the<BR>
right places to maximize the damage.<BR>
<BR>
Even so, it *would* take quite a bit to wipe out the critters around<BR>
the deep ocean vents. And forget wiping out the deep rock bacteria.<BR>
Short of remelting the entire crust I don't think they *can* be wiped<BR>
out. <BR>
<BR>
But wiping out all the animals and most of the plants is much easier.<BR>
Even easier if you ignore the really small stuff.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 12:03:05 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Was Writ:<BR>
><BR>
>>Ever visited Naples?  There's also a city in Japan (sawit on the Discovery<BR>
>>Channel yesterday, can't remember the name) that sits right under a very<BR>
>>active volcano.. the schools have eruption drills!<BR>
><BR>
> Don't forget Mount Ranier and Mount Shasta as they were the expected<BR>
> candidates before St. Helens blew.  By the way you want to see what calderas<BR>
> looks like in the lower 48 check out the pair in the Jemez Mountains of<BR>
> Northern New Mexico.  The larger of the two lies partially over the first<BR>
> and if memory serves correctly has a measured crater over 7 klicks across.<BR>
> I have a geologic map of the area in a box some where.  There are pumice<BR>
> beds over 50 feet thick some miles distant from the rim.  When it blew...<BR>
> well lets just say that the future St. Helens eruption of recent memory was<BR>
> a popcorn fart by comparison.  There is also a rather large caldera in the<BR>
> Med whose last explosion is said to be tied to the Atlantis myths.<BR>
<BR>
Thera.<BR>
<BR>
But getting back to the US, there's a place in California (Long<BR>
Valley?) that was dicovered to be a *big* caldera a few years back.<BR>
It's got a lot of people living in it, and it is *definitely* only<BR>
"dormant". USGS has sensors all over the place. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:05:44 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Volcanoes and Cities<BR>
<BR>
At 12:03 PM 11/27/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>But getting back to the US, there's a place in California (Long<BR>
>Valley?) that was dicovered to be a *big* caldera a few years back.<BR>
>It's got a lot of people living in it, and it is *definitely* only<BR>
>"dormant". USGS has sensors all over the place. <BR>
><BR>
>-- <BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
        <BR>
        Hi, Leonard!<BR>
        Yellowstone or Yosemite (the one with the "Old Faithful" gyser in<BR>
it) is sitting on top of what you call a "third type" of volcano.  I goes<BR>
every hunfred thosand years or so, based on geologic record.   We're about<BR>
due, apparently, and the orbital sattilites have detected a 1m upwards<BR>
change in that areas altitude.  Based on the geologic record, we're talking<BR>
about an eruptive area the size of Rhode Island and flow distantces ten<BR>
times that.<BR>
        This was all in a Time or Popular Science magazine that came out<BR>
shortly after the "Coast is Toast" movie.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
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				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
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			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
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	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:13:57 -0800<BR>
From: "B. Mallory" <bmallory@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Crypto<BR>
<BR>
Daniel Phelps wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Each "branch office" would receive at scheduled periods a unique code which<BR>
> consists of two tables of simple equations whose results are non-repeating<BR>
> decimals i.e., like Pi?.<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Dan<BR>
<BR>
Check out the Enigma machine.  New wheels can be distributed on a<BR>
regular basis.<BR>
<BR>
When deciding upon what type of code to use there are several factors to<BR>
consider.<BR>
1. How long do you want to delay the decoding? (Only single use code<BR>
books do not apply here)<BR>
2. How much information do you want to transmit?<BR>
3. How much effort can the remote person afford to take?  (Check out<BR>
PALVERSTON code used in<BR>
   the American cival war for an easy to use example.)<BR>
<BR>
Try using a newspaper for the single use key with a simple substitution<BR>
code that is then run<BR>
through a transposition pattern.  This will provide some error recovery<BR>
for the receiver while<BR>
providing for ease of use and good security.  A search of the remote<BR>
site is less likely to<BR>
reveal what is being used as a key.  The reomte also runs less risk of<BR>
being compromised by<BR>
continually coming into contact with someone to get a new book.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting thread<BR>
B.Mallory<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:32:22 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: Cold War<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Since we've found the crater, the big question is was it a commet or an<BR>
>asteroid.<BR>
<BR>
So what is the difference between a comet and an asteroid ?<BR>
<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 21:35:02 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heroes and Villians pt Nth (was Ming, Barbarela, Remulak)<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 28 Nov 1999 00:02:24 +1300, "Frank Pitt"<BR>
<frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> Dan Roseberry (plop101) "Watsa pax anyway?<BR>
>> Some Kinda Desease?" --Junior Samples BR549<BR>
><BR>
>Nah, it's transport industry slang for passengers. <BR>
><BR>
A pax on both your houses!<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:38:59 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Cold War<BR>
<BR>
At 10:32 PM 11/27/99 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Since we've found the crater, the big question is was it a commet or an<BR>
>>asteroid.<BR>
><BR>
>So what is the difference between a comet and an asteroid ?<BR>
><BR>
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
><BR>
>Tommy Grav<BR>
<BR>
        Mass, and therefore punch-through on the crust, and therefore how<BR>
much particulate matter got injected into the stratosphere as a result.  I<BR>
think.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 15:46:21 -0600<BR>
From: Steve Lieb <steve@necadon.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1400<BR>
<BR>
> > >I also submit that no-one has ever had the ability.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Here we disagree.  The Cold War was not a bad dream.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm sorry Glenn, but you're completely wrong on this one.<BR>
> <BR>
> There are not, and have never been, enough nuclear weapons on the planet<BR>
> to<BR>
> completely wipe out even a single moderate sized country , say France, let<BR>
> alone the entire world.<BR>
> <BR>
> Frankie.<BR>
> <BR>
	[Steve Lieb]  Sorry, I had to de-lurk for a moment to engage this<BR>
"debunking".<BR>
<BR>
	Not sure how such a statement could be made, but here's the numbers.<BR>
	At the height of the cold war, there were approximately 50,000<BR>
warheads in various stockpiles, averaging (WAG) probably less than 10<BR>
megatons.<BR>
<BR>
	Now the damned statistics.  50,000 warheads x 10 megatons means, if<BR>
they were scattered perfectly in perfect conditions, they would effectively<BR>
destroy 25 mi^2 x 50,000 or 1.25 mio square miles.  Would this wipe out a<BR>
country the size of France?  I don't know the size of France, but California<BR>
is only about 150,000 sq miles.  <BR>
	Now, is this likely (perfect distribution, perfect condition)?  No,<BR>
in fact, impossible.<BR>
	But I'm pretty certain that if even a decent fraction of these<BR>
warheads landed, France would be functionally obliterated.<BR>
<BR>
	Of course, it depends also on how you define "wipe out"?  If you<BR>
mean "disintegrate to atoms" - you're right.  But a single 50mt<BR>
lithium-cobalt doped warhead could, over the span of a half-dozen years,<BR>
wipe out human and animal (and a sizeable fraction of vegetable) life on<BR>
this planet.  Leo Szilard pointed that out in what - 1957?  Basic physics<BR>
hasn't changed since then, and our understanding of the catastrophic<BR>
consequences of even small amounts of radiation in the natural environments<BR>
has only gotten better.<BR>
<BR>
	/lurk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 22:00:22 GMT<BR>
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)<BR>
Subject: Comets vs Asteroids<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:38:59 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt<BR>
<misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At 10:32 PM 11/27/99 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>>On Sat, 27 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>>Since we've found the crater, the big question is was it a commet or an<BR>
>>>asteroid.<BR>
>><BR>
>>So what is the difference between a comet and an asteroid ?<BR>
>><BR>
>>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>><BR>
>>Tommy Grav<BR>
><BR>
>        Mass, and therefore punch-through on the crust, and therefore how<BR>
>much particulate matter got injected into the stratosphere as a result.  I<BR>
>think.<BR>
><BR>
Asteroids are denser and contain a higher percentage of metal. Comets<BR>
are mostly water and frozen gasses.<BR>
<BR>
================================================================================<BR>
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net<BR>
<BR>
"Everything has an end, except sausages, which have two."     -Viking Proverb<BR>
<BR>
Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833<BR>
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-<BR>
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++<BR>
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 16:06:30 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1400<BR>
<BR>
10 megatons is a lot, even for the old Soviets.<BR>
<BR>
warhead yield was initially high only because RV CEP was so high.  As the<BR>
cold war progressed, american yields dropped to fractions of a megaton<BR>
because CEP had also dropped.<BR>
<BR>
This doesn't change the number of warheads of course.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Steve Lieb <steve@necadon.com><BR>
To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com' <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Saturday, November 27, 1999 4:07 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #1400<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> > >I also submit that no-one has ever had the ability.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Here we disagree.  The Cold War was not a bad dream.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I'm sorry Glenn, but you're completely wrong on this one.<BR>
>><BR>
>> There are not, and have never been, enough nuclear weapons on the planet<BR>
>> to<BR>
>> completely wipe out even a single moderate sized country , say France,<BR>
let<BR>
>> alone the entire world.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Frankie.<BR>
>><BR>
> [Steve Lieb]  Sorry, I had to de-lurk for a moment to engage this<BR>
>"debunking".<BR>
><BR>
> Not sure how such a statement could be made, but here's the numbers.<BR>
> At the height of the cold war, there were approximately 50,000<BR>
>warheads in various stockpiles, averaging (WAG) probably less than 10<BR>
>megatons.<BR>
><BR>
> Now the damned statistics.  50,000 warheads x 10 megatons means, if<BR>
>they were scattered perfectly in perfect conditions, they would effectively<BR>
>destroy 25 mi^2 x 50,000 or 1.25 mio square miles.  Would this wipe out a<BR>
>country the size of France?  I don't know the size of France, but<BR>
California<BR>
>is only about 150,000 sq miles.<BR>
> Now, is this likely (perfect distribution, perfect condition)?  No,<BR>
>in fact, impossible.<BR>
> But I'm pretty certain that if even a decent fraction of these<BR>
>warheads landed, France would be functionally obliterated.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, it depends also on how you define "wipe out"?  If you<BR>
>mean "disintegrate to atoms" - you're right.  But a single 50mt<BR>
>lithium-cobalt doped warhead could, over the span of a half-dozen years,<BR>
>wipe out human and animal (and a sizeable fraction of vegetable) life on<BR>
>this planet.  Leo Szilard pointed that out in what - 1957?  Basic physics<BR>
>hasn't changed since then, and our understanding of the catastrophic<BR>
>consequences of even small amounts of radiation in the natural environments<BR>
>has only gotten better.<BR>
><BR>
> /lurk<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1405<BR>
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